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	<title>Comments on: Imaginist, Systemicist, and Getting Myself Wrong</title>
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	<link>http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/2010/02/03/imaingist-systemicist-and-getting-myself-wrong/</link>
	<description>Because the killer app is us.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:27:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Why There Is Never Going To Be A Silver Bullet &#8211; Requisite Reading &#8212; Requisite Reading</title>
		<link>http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/2010/02/03/imaingist-systemicist-and-getting-myself-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-29731</link>
		<dc:creator>Why There Is Never Going To Be A Silver Bullet &#8211; Requisite Reading &#8212; Requisite Reading</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/?p=1197#comment-29731</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve already talked about my own problems in this area. Because my dominant approaches to action / decision-making are Imaginist and Systemicist, I do great in ill-defined, murky, &#8220;don&#8217;t know where to go&#8221; problems. It&#8217;s Moses leading the Israelites to a promised land they&#8217;ve never seen, not Joshua leading them to conquer it, much less David leading them as king. Even the fact that I frame this in mythical story makes it repulsive to many people who use other decision approaches. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->[...] I&#8217;ve already talked about my own problems in this area. Because my dominant approaches to action / decision-making are Imaginist and Systemicist, I do great in ill-defined, murky, &#8220;don&#8217;t know where to go&#8221; problems. It&#8217;s Moses leading the Israelites to a promised land they&#8217;ve never seen, not Joshua leading them to conquer it, much less David leading them as king. Even the fact that I frame this in mythical story makes it repulsive to many people who use other decision approaches. [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Alicia Parr</title>
		<link>http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/2010/02/03/imaingist-systemicist-and-getting-myself-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-29728</link>
		<dc:creator>Alicia Parr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/?p=1197#comment-29728</guid>
		<description>I do recall the topics you mention from Stan&#039;s admin course.  It could be a matter of differently framing the same ideas, but I feel more personal affinity to the way I&#039;ve presented reactive preferences.  I believe that preferences do change over time whether we try to influence or not, although the degree of change is more nuanced than what most people think of when it comes to change.  Also, I&#039;m firmly in the camp of &quot;no best type&quot; and &quot;preferences frame behaviors but don&#039;t determine them.&quot;    You are right to correct me in that it is the behaviors that get the development focus rather than the preference.  Preferences just inform how to frame and execute  the behavior change for that individual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I do recall the topics you mention from Stan&#8217;s admin course.  It could be a matter of differently framing the same ideas, but I feel more personal affinity to the way I&#8217;ve presented reactive preferences.  I believe that preferences do change over time whether we try to influence or not, although the degree of change is more nuanced than what most people think of when it comes to change.  Also, I&#8217;m firmly in the camp of &#8220;no best type&#8221; and &#8220;preferences frame behaviors but don&#8217;t determine them.&#8221;    You are right to correct me in that it is the behaviors that get the development focus rather than the preference.  Preferences just inform how to frame and execute  the behavior change for that individual.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Forrest Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/2010/02/03/imaingist-systemicist-and-getting-myself-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-29727</link>
		<dc:creator>Forrest Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/?p=1197#comment-29727</guid>
		<description>(Anyone notice that I spelled &quot;Imaginist&quot; wrong in the title?)

The who you want to be vs. who you are idea was from Stan in our class. I could have gotten that wrong. It seemed more like the façade that you wish falls away and you are left nakedly exposed under pressure. However, I think you position makes good sense.

Even then, Stan has always said that the HumPat numbers can be changed with effort. Just not a lot very quickly, and not too many at one time. This is different from maladaptive behaviours I&#039;ve picked up.

Besides, one&#039;s personality profile has almost no bearing on what you will do, just on how you will frame something. My training included interpreting for a woman whose results looked entirely touchy-feely, caring for others deeply and non-logical. &quot;Well, to start with, don&#039;t work with numbers,&quot; I said. At which she and our &quot;coach&quot; burst out laughing: she was a very successful accountant. It&#039;s not about the work or the job but how you can successfully frame it. So one&#039;s personality doesn&#039;t have as strong affect on action as we would like to think. 

This could be easily tested by having someone who is outgoing developing a high score (say, 3+) for something like Quietness. I&#039;m not sure how one would undertake this. It&#039;s not about developing the habit of silence but the strong need for it. 

Stan had some interesting thoughts about the high scores (&gt;3) that are regularly appearing on younger people&#039;s test results. He thinks that the more personally-focused society doesn&#039;t force us to mitigate our strong predilections. So if I&#039;m gregarious I&#039;m allowed to continue on that and not ever checked socially. 

On changing, one of the things that I like about Stan&#039;s and Warren&#039;s perspectives is that they both believe that there is no &quot;best&quot; type. Stan sees your Human Patterns as simply who you are, and that there is no good or bad result, although you may need to compensate for some of them. Warren&#039;s seven decision styles have no overarching, &quot;I&#039;m better than you&quot; type. All are necessary in decent sized organizations at all times. I think both would agree that some types (personality for Stan, decision style for Warren) work better in a particular situation than others, but that does not mean that you cannot achieve with the others. Understanding the others is very helpful and can give you more options. Changing yourself isn&#039;t necessary, although I may want to do the social equivalent of dying my hair and changing my fashion to better fit in with a certain social group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->(Anyone notice that I spelled &#8220;Imaginist&#8221; wrong in the title?)</p>
<p>The who you want to be vs. who you are idea was from Stan in our class. I could have gotten that wrong. It seemed more like the façade that you wish falls away and you are left nakedly exposed under pressure. However, I think you position makes good sense.</p>
<p>Even then, Stan has always said that the HumPat numbers can be changed with effort. Just not a lot very quickly, and not too many at one time. This is different from maladaptive behaviours I&#8217;ve picked up.</p>
<p>Besides, one&#8217;s personality profile has almost no bearing on what you will do, just on how you will frame something. My training included interpreting for a woman whose results looked entirely touchy-feely, caring for others deeply and non-logical. &#8220;Well, to start with, don&#8217;t work with numbers,&#8221; I said. At which she and our &#8220;coach&#8221; burst out laughing: she was a very successful accountant. It&#8217;s not about the work or the job but how you can successfully frame it. So one&#8217;s personality doesn&#8217;t have as strong affect on action as we would like to think. </p>
<p>This could be easily tested by having someone who is outgoing developing a high score (say, 3+) for something like Quietness. I&#8217;m not sure how one would undertake this. It&#8217;s not about developing the habit of silence but the strong need for it. </p>
<p>Stan had some interesting thoughts about the high scores (>3) that are regularly appearing on younger people&#8217;s test results. He thinks that the more personally-focused society doesn&#8217;t force us to mitigate our strong predilections. So if I&#8217;m gregarious I&#8217;m allowed to continue on that and not ever checked socially. </p>
<p>On changing, one of the things that I like about Stan&#8217;s and Warren&#8217;s perspectives is that they both believe that there is no &#8220;best&#8221; type. Stan sees your Human Patterns as simply who you are, and that there is no good or bad result, although you may need to compensate for some of them. Warren&#8217;s seven decision styles have no overarching, &#8220;I&#8217;m better than you&#8221; type. All are necessary in decent sized organizations at all times. I think both would agree that some types (personality for Stan, decision style for Warren) work better in a particular situation than others, but that does not mean that you cannot achieve with the others. Understanding the others is very helpful and can give you more options. Changing yourself isn&#8217;t necessary, although I may want to do the social equivalent of dying my hair and changing my fashion to better fit in with a certain social group.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Alicia Parr</title>
		<link>http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/2010/02/03/imaingist-systemicist-and-getting-myself-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-29726</link>
		<dc:creator>Alicia Parr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manasclerk.com/blog/?p=1197#comment-29726</guid>
		<description>Interesting self-reflective post.  I&#039;m going to respond just to the part about the meaning of Human Patterns&#039; relaxed vs. stressed scores.  

Whether my proactive (relaxed) numbers reflect my desired self, I don&#039;t really know.  Maybe some of it yes, some of it no, but I&#039;m not going to dive into that now.  

As for reactive (stressed) scores.  Rather than be indicative of our &#039;true selves&#039;, I tend to see those as patterns of adaptation to stress that we&#039;ve developed over our lifetime up to the point of assessment.  On some level, those are the responses that we feel &#039;work&#039; for us.  They result from a mixture of inborn temperament and environmental response to our behaviors over time.  There are reasons we behave as we do under pressure - some obvious to us and some subconscious.  

The main reason I make this distinction is because if we view our reactive profile as &quot;how we truly are&quot;, it becomes hard to convince ourselves that change and further adaptations are possible.  If we view our reactive profile as &quot;how we&#039;ve adapted to react to stress over a long period of time,&quot; then we have a shot at making tweaks in our patterns if we do the work.

Stan may or may not agree with this, I don&#039;t know.  I haven&#039;t discussed this precise point with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Interesting self-reflective post.  I&#8217;m going to respond just to the part about the meaning of Human Patterns&#8217; relaxed vs. stressed scores.  </p>
<p>Whether my proactive (relaxed) numbers reflect my desired self, I don&#8217;t really know.  Maybe some of it yes, some of it no, but I&#8217;m not going to dive into that now.  </p>
<p>As for reactive (stressed) scores.  Rather than be indicative of our &#8216;true selves&#8217;, I tend to see those as patterns of adaptation to stress that we&#8217;ve developed over our lifetime up to the point of assessment.  On some level, those are the responses that we feel &#8216;work&#8217; for us.  They result from a mixture of inborn temperament and environmental response to our behaviors over time.  There are reasons we behave as we do under pressure &#8211; some obvious to us and some subconscious.  </p>
<p>The main reason I make this distinction is because if we view our reactive profile as &#8220;how we truly are&#8221;, it becomes hard to convince ourselves that change and further adaptations are possible.  If we view our reactive profile as &#8220;how we&#8217;ve adapted to react to stress over a long period of time,&#8221; then we have a shot at making tweaks in our patterns if we do the work.</p>
<p>Stan may or may not agree with this, I don&#8217;t know.  I haven&#8217;t discussed this precise point with him.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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